Post by Bayer A.User on Nov 22, 2016 7:57:20 GMT -6
Extended support for Vista ends April 11,2017
Windows Update for Vista is still a "pack a lunch" proposition. Wait,wait,wait & wait some more. Still had a MSE version update in the cache from this past June...a couple hours later still at 0%. Unlike in the summertime,ambient temps are lower so the fan isn't blasting away.
Post by Bayer A.User on Nov 23, 2016 6:11:17 GMT -6
WU for legacy OS is so fouled up now. Priorities are ALL for 10 and it's obvious.If you Want Vista security updates,save yourself a ton of aggravation and get em' straight from the update catalog website.
I suppose it's to be expected that older systems will receive less and less support and running them would be more and more problematic.
Where does "intentionally screwing up an older Windows system" start and "defunding and neglecting an older windows system to the point where the update process screws up" end? It's probably not quantifiable.
-Noel
Author of the "How to Configure the 'To Work' Options" series of Windows books. Not feeling enough love to do one for Windows 10.
Post by Locutus deBorg on Nov 23, 2016 11:10:25 GMT -6
it's not a problem with "legacy" OS - the problem is the update agent only with Vista SP2, win7 SP1, and certain win8 / 8.1x configs not Vista RTM, Vista SP1, not Win7 RTM, not XP SP3, Not Win2K SP4+Rollup
I've done more than enough Proof of Concept to show that WUAU was and is intentionally broken by MS for the last SPs of the NT6 line
Win2K RTM installation: add the following with the offline installers - high encryption pack (must be installed before installing IE6) - SP4 - Rollup 1 - IE6 - BITS - Windows installer 3.1 - WUAU Agent - Root Certificates update
set WUAU to option 2 or 3 and within a few minutes it's either with option 3, notifying of updates ready for download or with option 2 begins download of updates
ready for install in less than 1 hour
XP SP3 installation nothing required prior to starting WUAU upon starting WUAU it gets the last WUAU agent for XP which isn't borked and then notifies within minutes that updates are ready for download uncheck the unwanted updates (specifically the EOL FUDWare and WGA spyware) click OK and boom they start downloading within minutes and are ready for installation in less than 1 hour
vista RTM and SP1 > last WUAU update agent which isn't borked > updates retrieved in less than 1 hour from setting WUAU to option 2 also same with option 3 notification is nearly instant when starting with RTM install updates, then SP1 with stand alone offline installer then the list of post SP1 updates will be offered
win 7 RTM in a matter of minutes gets the last WUAU agent for RTM which isn't borked yet it then gives the short list of only the prerequisite updates for installing SP1
as soon as SP2 is added to vista boom! it's hosed when it is forced to take the next update agent as soon as SP1 is added to win 7 boom! it's hosed when it is forced to take the next update agent
on the next win 7 install I will test the list by hiding SP1 it should then offer the remainder of the RTM updates
they keep claiming that they've fixed the win7 problem but it gets borked again every or every other month
I find the lack of configuration options disturbing !
I felt a great disturbance in the force.. as if millions of win 7 systems suddenly cried out in terror.
Post by Bayer A.User on Nov 24, 2016 8:16:30 GMT -6
I fully expected MSFT to run two parallel WUAU services. The brand new scheme for 10(that we all dislike) and the traditional concept for older OS that worked just fine. At least for the remaining extended support time frame. Fuggetabout it. I was Wrong.
What they are doing now with WU benefits them in two ways. With a wink and a nod they "fulfill" support requirements for Legacy OS(just barely) and escape any breach of trust issues. At the same time promoting 10 as the simple easy and safe alternative.
BTW, the standalone installers work fine EXCEPT when svchost process' are redlining the cpu. So we need to disable wuauserv. iex9 in Vista will be required(for the time being) to access the update catalog website.In other words,you'll need to use an outdated"unsafe" browser to get the cumulative security dwnlds in order to make that outdated browser "safe". Or use iex11 on another machine and burn them to a CD-R.
One last thing- In the last year i have observed Banks still on Vista, Car dealerships still on 7, Professional testing facilities still on XP. Where are these hundreds of millions Win10 machines ?
Post by Bayer A.User on Nov 24, 2016 16:24:57 GMT -6
Apparently MSFT finally did modify the catalog update website to support 3rd party browsers. My Opera36 runs the activeX just fine in Vista SP2 32bit. Plenty of XP updates available for dwnld.
Post by Locutus deBorg on Nov 24, 2016 20:00:34 GMT -6
Update catalog isn't working much for me
MSDownload center works though
Use WMIC to get a list of installed updates from a currently patched system
open an Administrator : Command Prompt use the following command to get the list
WMIC QFE LIST FULL /Format:HTable > D:\Temp\HotfixList.HTM
D:\Temp\ is where I put the file substitute D:\Temp\ with the desired target for the file
tested on win7x64 should work on any winders version beginning with XP and server 2003
you can then import the htm file into Excel or other spreadsheet program to select only the KB numbers from the column if opened in a browser it selects everything
too bad I don't get to poke the WUAU dragon with win vista SP2 and win 7 SP1 installations but it's more fun to poke them in the eye with fresh win2K installations and XP installations and Vista RTM / SP1 and Win7 RTM
217 in the current list on my system: last updates installed in Aug 2016 after that WUAU is broken again requiring offline installations to "fix" it > whatafncrock
I find the lack of configuration options disturbing !
I felt a great disturbance in the force.. as if millions of win 7 systems suddenly cried out in terror.
I honestly don't see any reason to mess around with the Windows Update Catalog. If updates are borked on a machine due to the dead loop bug, simply use WSUS Offline Update. Much faster, more thorough, doesn't require a half-dozen reboots to bring a new machine all the way up to date. Best part is that all the updates are automatically downloaded to a folder and can be applied manually if desired.
Last Edit: Nov 26, 2016 12:32:27 GMT -6 by Techie007
Microsoft, is Windows 10 the best you could do? Really? After promising to listen to our feedback, what a letdown!
Post by Locutus deBorg on Nov 25, 2016 1:14:12 GMT -6
went there, ^ it doesn't look like there is any control over the installation - skipping the junkware updates eg. KB971033 WAT spyware - which I will NEVER install on any win7 system
over the next while I will be building some updater DVDs, which will only have the updates I have previously approved, excluding the 9+ spyware backports from oranguten and the > oh hai you are running an older version of winders FUDWare
win 7 x64 SP1 win 7 x86 SP1 win vista x86 SP2 win vista x64 SP2 XP SP3 XP x64 SP2 win2K SP4 +Rollup Server 2003 STD SP2 also excluding WGA and EOL FUDWare from the XP disc
also ending win 7 updates at the change over from individual patches to combo patches I can't install the combo patches because they include the cumulative update for IE which doesn't apply to my systems.
I find the lack of configuration options disturbing !
I felt a great disturbance in the force.. as if millions of win 7 systems suddenly cried out in terror.
doesn't require a half-dozen reboots to bring a new machine all the way up to date.
So true . Also configuration after restart, I like to actually SEE it go 100%
Pros n Cons one way or the other.
Putting the critical standalones on a DVD or flashdrive makes my life easier. A new install of an old OS doesn't require going online in order to get it close to being safe online the first time.
KB971033 WAT spyware - which I will NEVER install on any win7 system
Once apon a time, Windows being "activated" meant real support. Doesn't really matter anymore. Hey, as long as we know our systems are legit and we take responsibility for them then the "ActivationTechnologySpyware" goes the way of the dodo bird.
Post by Locutus deBorg on Nov 25, 2016 20:01:26 GMT -6
only half a dozen reboots, ya oughta try my installation procedure max 5 at a time from the bottom of the list up that's about 40+ reboots to get winders 7 updated
and the funny thing is some of them that were offered vanish before all the updating is complete
WAT 971033 causes false positive on some Dell hardware requiring a phone call for each system that comes up "not genuine"
WAT was integrated in winders ape and up it supposedly detects all sorts of cracktivations but obviously not all of them, because there are still bootleg winders ape installs out there
Not sure why anyone would want a bootleg winders ape
I find the lack of configuration options disturbing !
I felt a great disturbance in the force.. as if millions of win 7 systems suddenly cried out in terror.
My worry with Activation Technology is that "by accident" a perfectly good Windows license could get blacklisted. Then you'd be screwed. A condition for accepting that crap in the first place was that Microsoft wasn't likely to turn evil. But they did.
No KB971033 on my Win 7 system that just hums in the corner as a server. 100% stable, not used interactively so no real need for updates ever again.
I do have a minimum amount of background license activity still running regularly on my Windows 8.1 system, which is my main development and business management system. But there are various Microsoft sites, such as *vo.msecnd.net, *telemetry*microsoft*, *vortex.data.microsoft.com, r20swj13mr.microsoft.com, and many others that it's never allowed to contact. So far, knock on wood, it's functional.
-Noel
Author of the "How to Configure the 'To Work' Options" series of Windows books. Not feeling enough love to do one for Windows 10.
Post by Bayer A.User on Dec 8, 2016 18:06:36 GMT -6
Finally a solution to the svcHosed/WU in Vista problem !! Vista Business x86 Just a couple KB's to manually install got my 7.6.7600.256 agent's head outta it's ass and restored full WU functionality. First, disable WU(as if you hadn't already) Dwnld KB 318 5911 security update and KB 319 1203(Oct2016)Kernel mode drivers security update. There is also a later KB 319 8234(Nov2016)kernel mode driver security update that did not apply to my system. Available from MSFT dwnld site or the update catalog. Both require restarts. Turn on WU(i set it to automatic) and check for updates. Results were immediate. No more hardware thrash.
Speaking of sensitivity to white screens...did you know that most LCD monitors flicker completely on and off at 240 Hz? The LED backlit ones are the worst because their switching times are so fast. They actually strain the eyes much more acutely than a good CRT monitor running at a high refresh rate.
There are several options:
Run the LCD monitor's brightness at 100% and wear sunglasses (most stop flickering at 100%).
Buy one that doesn't flicker (you'll need a good list, or a tester and a store with a lot of units on display).
Electronically modify one that you have so that it is properly designed to not flicker anymore.
I actually have gone in to my local MicroCenter with a tester I built to find out which models flicker and which ones don't. Since very few don't flicker (and they're often poor quality units), I've also modified many CCFL and LED backlit units to eliminate the flicker. Makes a difference for me!
It took sooo many years before my wife understood that nothing worked properly until I cracked the case and modified it.
Post by Locutus deBorg on Dec 11, 2016 9:33:45 GMT -6
KB3185911 < what exactly does graphics stuff have to do with winders update !? KB3191203 < ooh fun more kernel changes "Not~!"
testing now on this poor vista disaster that has been off winders update for a while
"Update": still eatin all the CPU and RAM jumpin between SVCHOSED and (un)TrustedInstaller goes up and down and up and down , the RAM usage Graph in Task Mangler looks like a repeated Tsunami
Last Edit: Dec 11, 2016 10:04:00 GMT -6 by Locutus deBorg: "update" ah ha pun!
I find the lack of configuration options disturbing !
I felt a great disturbance in the force.. as if millions of win 7 systems suddenly cried out in terror.
Post by Bayer A.User on Dec 12, 2016 7:03:27 GMT -6
The consensus seems to be in regards to Vista SP2.... Update agent 7.6.7600.256 4 KB's will hang the agent(checking for updates) and result in the never ending cpu bog down. KB 318 5911 KB 319 1203 KB 319 8234 KB 320 3859 WU must be disabled(set to NEVER check+reboot) before installing these updates. I tried all four,only KB 318 5911 & KB 319 1203 applied to my system/successfully installed. I then set WU to "Automatic" default setting and ran a manual check for updates. 15 seconds( by my watch) later I received 9 important and 4 optional. Checked and unchecked my choices and installed them. The cpu & ram use was minimal and the fan never started. This D531 runs as good as it ever did. The kernel update seems to be the key as there will be no agent or update stack changes for remaining extended support ending April2017.
Someone needs to point out that Microsoft has intentionally broken the security of older systems by hosing up Windows Update in this way. That could be considered an actionable offense.
-Noel
Author of the "How to Configure the 'To Work' Options" series of Windows books. Not feeling enough love to do one for Windows 10.
Someone needs to point out that Microsoft has intentionally broken the security of older systems by hosing up Windows Update in this way. That could be considered an actionable offense.
-Noel
Yeah, what they DID was intentional. Unfortunately, what they DID is not being explained to anyone. MSFT decided to integrate the support of legacy OS along side the support of 10. This requires additional updates to the WUagents and servicing stacks of 7 & 8.1 EXAMPLE: This past summer those changes were pushed via WU. If you had WU disabled then you missed them and as result may now have a non functional WU in 7 . Believe me, the non functional older update agent in 7 behaves exactly like 7.6.7600.256 has been in Vista. It uses between 50-85% cpu and at least half the ram "checking" and never finding/dwnlding anything. While it's maxed out MSE can NOT update defins and general OS performance is poor. The solution of course is to disable wuauserv. More importantly STOP the current wuauserv process. CMD as ADMIN net stop wuauserv
The "Quality Rollups" are necessary if you want a functional WU from now on in 7. Why? cause they won't give us the latest WUagent all by itself. As for Vista, They'll just let the clock run out on it. The steps i've posted solve the problem for now. Shit yeah, i'll let this Vista machine run through crash tuesday and we shall see what becomes of it.
Post by Bayer A.User on Dec 12, 2016 15:42:50 GMT -6
BTW, the latest WUagent/client for 7sp1 is 7.6.7601.23453 The only way to get it is to install one of the June or July2016 rollups. First, you need the ServiceStack update. The latest from Sept2016 is KB 317 7467 for 7sp1. After that install the latest July2016 "rollup" KB 317 2605
Post by Bayer A.User on Dec 14, 2016 11:18:29 GMT -6
Rats ! WU in Vista ran all night and found nothing. Back to the Update Catalog website. vintage 12-11-2016 security updates for Vista sp2 KB 319 6348, KB 319 6726, KB 320 3838, KB 320 4723, KB 320 4724, KB 320 4808, KB 320 5638
Post by Bayer A.User on Jan 8, 2017 15:46:52 GMT -6
Another Vistax86 Home Premium install. 2006 vintage media on a 2016 vintage machine. SP1 via standalone KB 936 330 (Wave 0) results in... WU update agent/client 7.0.6001.18000. That sucker Kicks ass. Instantly finding 116 important & 4 optional updates. An hour n 5 minutes later all installed. As opposed to the infamous 7.6.7600.256 agent that butchers the hardware for hours/days on end .
Locutus, you are sooo right when you say they purposely screwed that pooch.
WMIC QFE LIST FULL /Format:HTable > %UserProfile%\Desktop\QFEList.HTM
move the file to USB or network etc.
reset the system choose ask me later on the winders update OOBE prompt configure and secure the system install different browser as the MS sites will attempt to choke you to death if you show up there with IE7 note the SP level RTM, SP1, or SP2
for RTM / SP1 set winders update to either download only or notify only
hide MS WU driver updates, if drivers are a problem get them only from the PC Mfg. web site
in the Winders update window change the sort order to release date so the oldest appear first install them by their specific release dates, oldest to newest I don't recommend anyone bulk install 100+ updates in one shot even with extremely high end hardware as it's still a lot of CPU and disk abuse to do so
after completing the reset and getting all the way to "ready to install SP2"
open the QFEList.HTM file in a browser or in Excel note the KB numbers hit up MS download center and / or update catalog and download the .msu files for the KB numbers relating to SP2 also check for revoked, replaced, superseded and skip those
copy those files to USB or network as backup
get the system to SP2 then turn off winders update leave it off and use WUSA in an Administrator : Command Prompt to install the .msu files these go in one at a time and will inform when a reboot is required to complete the installation
if the system resets to SP2 (which is extremely rare but has been known to happen) choose ask me later on the winders update OOBE prompt configure and secure the system install different browser skip most of the steps above go directly to getting the .msu files listed in the QFEList file leave winders update off in an Administrator : Command Prompt use WUSA to install the .msu files
eg. if you download all the MSU files into their own KB Numbered directories in a directory named Vistax86 then the WUSA command would look like this
WUSA \Vistax86\KB2479943\Windows6.0-KB2479943-x86.msu or WUSA X:\Vistax86\KB2479943\Windows6.0-KB2479943-x86.msu
where X: is the drive containing the .msu files
this will get you to the same patch level the system was at before
also use the clean up command for SP1 prior to installing SP2 and then for SP2 after all updates are done SP1 vsp1cln.exe
SP2 compcln.exe
that should keep you busy for a while
I find the lack of configuration options disturbing !
I felt a great disturbance in the force.. as if millions of win 7 systems suddenly cried out in terror.
<Rick> Good video. It's almost hard to believe that at one time Windows 98 was the resource hog, but even then, it still ran circles around what Windows 10 can do on today's modern hardware and look a heck of alot better doing it.
May 25, 2021 22:55:12 GMT -6
<Rick> As stated elsewhere, So much for the launch of Windows 11, "The Great Crash." Myself, I had a hard time getting into the site listed above, when I did get in, the video was partly done and then it crashed. There has been many other reports of crashing.
Jun 24, 2021 9:52:33 GMT -6
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<Rick> I see Microsoft has been very quick to pull down reports of site crashing regarding the Launch of Windows 11 on the Microsoft Insiders forum.
Jun 24, 2021 9:57:31 GMT -6
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<Rick> The rebroadcast is working okay.
Jun 24, 2021 11:00:25 GMT -6
<Rick> With reports of people being able to install the dev-edition of Windows 11 on machines not meeting spec, I thought I would give it a what-the-heck try. Lucky me, I'm caught in the downloading, doesn't meet spec, clearing, re-downloading loop on my machine!
Jul 2, 2021 7:08:46 GMT -6
<Rick> I've recently purchased a license for ArcaOS from www.arcanoae.com/ to play with. First impressions, it's still OS/2, but it now has a Linux twist to it.
Jul 2, 2021 7:32:53 GMT -6
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<dozrguy> laptop shit out and am stuck buying a new one. os win11 as fucked as win10 was?
Oct 2, 2021 12:56:10 GMT -6
<Rick> Let's see ..., my impression of Windows 11 is that it is a spruced up version of Windows 10 requiring a 64-bit processor plus a piece of security hardware that is less than 4 years old in order for it to run.
Oct 4, 2021 18:25:49 GMT -6
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<Rick> On the plus side, Microsoft is supposed to be supporting Windows 10 for some time to come for those of us still using systems with I7 or older processors.
Oct 4, 2021 18:44:35 GMT -6
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<dozrguy> i tried installing win10 om the 'shitout' pc this morning usung media creation. EPIC FAIL! went into an endless bootloop. win7 reinstalled just fine
Oct 21, 2021 11:23:38 GMT -6
<dozrguy> STILL so much bullshit and so little time for the kiddie ideas from the hill. My new laptop (MSI GE 11-UH461) would be an awesome "10" machine but because of Winblows I can only give it a "2"......wasted $3500
Oct 27, 2021 9:36:47 GMT -6
<Rick> Hello. Just checking in.
Mar 17, 2022 10:46:54 GMT -6
<isidroco> Each new w10 update adds >100000 useless files to \Windows\Servicing\LCU\Package_for_RollupFix... folders. Even in a SSD takes time to delete that stuff. In each version they manage to worsen stuff.
Mar 27, 2022 16:14:51 GMT -6
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<dozerguy> still traffic here?
Oct 9, 2022 17:32:44 GMT -6
<Rick> No, there does not seem to be very much traffic these days. I still check in from time to time.
Oct 9, 2022 20:08:58 GMT -6