By now everyone has heard of the ginormous failure of windows 10. I believe it began with windows 8 and has just continued the downward spiral circling the drain. I predict in the not too distant future MSFT will go the way of sega and just make mobile apps for other OS's like sega stopped making hardware and just did games for other consoles.
However in the spirit of conversation what are everyones thoughts on this and why do you think MSFT will or wont crash?
I think it is fairly clear that with Windows 8 they were not just trying to make the OS touch-friendly (which does nothing for the vast, existing user base), but also wanted to start setting things up for the switch to a free OS that would generate revenue via other means than paying $100 to $130 a copy. Ads started making a debut in the start menu recently as "suggestions" which take you to the app store (you know, like you were on a phone, rather than a desktop computer). It is a terrible business plan when so many people use Windows at work. It couldn't be a bigger disappointment for long time Windows users. I continue to implore MS to make two versions: Windows workstation, which you pay upfront for, and Windows Touch, which works best on mobile devices, and is free (with ads of course). MS needs to save their reputation from the bean counters over there.
While I am at it, they need to bring back themes, and one needs to be Windows 7 classic, with Aero. They need to let people get their desktop setup the way they are used to with a single click on a theme. They also need to keep the Control Panel, because PC Settings is a horrible downgrade.
ive said the same thing about themes forever. They need to be fine tunable allowing a finer grain of control. Control panel should be the desktop version while settings can be great on a touch tab or similar. This is why ive said what i have. MSFT is only interested in doing mobile software. However look at windows mobile throughout history. Eventually windows will be too close to a mobile OS and it too will fall. So the only real option they will have is to write apps for iOS and android to make money.
The ad crap is just stupid. This is the primary reason why mobile devices have never been taken up on a more serious level. They are nothing more than facebook launchpads because anyone with even a smidgeon of common sense is not willing to place sensitive data on these devices. Now cut+paste the same paradigm into the desktop and who will win? MSFT? or the end user when the leave?
By now everyone has heard of the ginormous failure of windows 10. I believe it began with windows 8 and has just continued the downward spiral circling the drain. I predict in the not too distant future MSFT will go the way of sega and just make mobile apps for other OS's like sega stopped making hardware and just did games for other consoles.
However in the spirit of conversation what are everyones thoughts on this and why do you think MSFT will or wont crash?
My post mortem.
Despite Microsoft’s public and private encouragement of Insiders to participate and help them build and design a new desktop OS, one to replace the beloved Windows 7.
One that would incorporate learning from the mistakes of Windows 8, it actually ended up being a cynical deception and a fool’s errand.
Mobile First, Cloud First, overruled any remaining common sense at MS.
They now actually believed their own marketing speak, that real work actually was done on four-inch screens.
This vision of the future came to them, and they just didn’t know any better, anymore.
truthfully i just think that those remaining at MSFT only used 4" screens. in fact when they started there was probably the first time any of them actually saw a PC and MSFT had to adapt so they could have engineers at all. I personally know they are of low quality. Look at the way they treat their software. Bugs that remain for years despite being told of them by hundreds of millions of users. They cant produce anything complex at all. UWA's are incredibly limited and reminds me of windows 2.0 notepad with about as much functionality some 30+ years later. Its clear that us productivity users have lost this war. As i said above in a few years there will be no windows at all and everyone will be on iOS or android except those of us who produce the shit the idiots need to consume we will be on Linux.
Speaking of shit, the censor robot zapped shite. It took 3 edits to overcome it to say it isn't a profanity in Japanese. One more reason for this forum. I personally don't understand why Microsoft didn't improve W7, they're most popular OS. They could have done so much for us. Greed and pandering to the least common denominator rules Redmond.
Microsoft would not and I'm sure does not consider Windows 10 a failure.
My opinion: They're swimming in Windows 7 money, so they figure this is the time to reset EVERYTHING to 1.0 level again and try to have another 3 decades of success based on tiny "improvement" after "improvement".
It might even make some sort of twisted sense, with the one exception that the people doing the mediocre work aren't working hard enough.
They'd like everyone to think Metro/Modern/Universal could grow up and become the Next Big Thing, but the world has already seen better. Personally, I don't think Metro/Modern/Universal is good enough for them to pull it off, especially since they can't really directly destroy existing older systems that are in place and working.
But perhaps I'm underestimating how aggressively they're going to be able to wreck the older systems through Windows Update.
Yeah Noel, the parallel program to fuck W7 and W8 systems are already under way. Part of this is the plan to eliminate Windows Update in W7 and W8, and replace it with Cumulative Update, complete with the inability to select which update you want and eliminate those you don't. I understand that at some point they will simply put W10 in a CU and Bob's your uncle, you have been assimilated. Linux looks better by the minute.
Note for example how they're making "bringing color to the title bar" a banner feature in the current pre-release build.
-Noel
And 565 is no different than the last build. It still only uses one color to set for every component and inactive caption color is still white and non configurable. So i dont see any change other than the 1 pixel border is now black.
Yeah Noel, the parallel program to fuck W7 and W8 systems are already under way. Part of this is the plan to eliminate Windows Update in W7 and W8, and replace it with Cumulative Update, complete with the inability to select which update you want and eliminate those you don't. I understand that at some point they will simply put W10 in a CU and Bob's your uncle, you have been assimilated. Linux looks better by the minute.
thats why i say just dont use WU. maybe theres a reason for it that i dont see or personally need but honestly i consider no different than XP at this point. My 7 works great as is.
And 565 is no different than the last build. It still only uses one color to set for every component and inactive caption color is still white and non configurable. So i dont see any change other than the 1 pixel border is now black.
Actually, there is a secret configuration method that works for Win32 programs in the registry. Metrotard apps continue to use the accent color (or gray and white), though. I like colors, so I have a blue active color, red inactive color, and a green accent color. Now if only Microsoft would let us configure this though the Settings app or something instead of a hack!
Strangely enough, Windows 10 reads some of these values out of the registry each time certain window related things change, sometimes hundreds of times a second. Talk about inefficient coding! At least it isn't opening and closing the registry keys between each RegQueryValue operation like some other Windows components do.
Last Edit: Oct 16, 2015 13:31:30 GMT -6 by Techie007
Microsoft, is Windows 10 the best you could do? Really? After promising to listen to our feedback, what a letdown!
By now everyone has heard of the ginormous failure of windows 10. I believe it began with windows 8 and has just continued the downward spiral circling the drain. I predict in the not too distant future MSFT will go the way of sega and just make mobile apps for other OS's like sega stopped making hardware and just did games for other consoles.
However in the spirit of conversation what are everyones thoughts on this and why do you think MSFT will or wont crash?
Historically, monoliths become arrogant with the attitude that their customers will accept what ever they are told to accept. And, historically, those monoliths crash and burn. IBM is barely a reflection of their past glory. How many people have even heard of Datapoint (once Fortune 500 and inventor of ARCNet which gave us all local area networking for our PC's)? I think Microsoft may have just gone too far down that road with Windows 10 to make a correction...if they even wanted to. Yes, I think they are in crash territory.
Hey, I'll take any configuration method they give me. At least the colors were not hardcoded in! On a more somber note, it's obvious that Microsoft doesn't think that changing the colors is supposed to be a simple process. Who knows when my registry edit trick will be broken?
Last Edit: Oct 16, 2015 13:50:28 GMT -6 by Techie007
Microsoft, is Windows 10 the best you could do? Really? After promising to listen to our feedback, what a letdown!
I'm not a programmer nor a developer like most of those who are here. At that, I'm finding Windows 10 just needs way to many hacks and work arounds just to get it to be reasonblely acceptable to use.
(well, I quoted "...Metrotard apps..." but it disappeared, and I do NOT suspect moderator censorship)
Metrotard App? What's that?
Oh, right, Settings. The only one still standing on my test system, and lo and behold it's decently light and fast!
But what's the point? Once all the new and "improved" stuff is out of the way, it's just a worse Win 8.1 / 7 system than 8.1 / 7. Win 10 is not actually LIGHTER, or FASTER (Drew1903, suck on that), and it struggles mightily to provide Basic telemetry to Microsoft.
Ya i was aware of the registery color hack and theres a good program that has it and a ton (30 or so) more giving you a UI for them. It even allows you to use a color wheel to select your own RGB value (which replaces the current accent color) to set instead of just the small group MSFT has chosen.
Gypsy You are correct MSFT has the Too big to fail syndrome going on. Little do they know nothing is too big and in fact the bigger something is the more likely it is to fall. ahem Rome. the thing is they could actually pull out of it. And whats worse they already know how. We have been screaming it for 4 years now. so really it isnt if they can or not its are they willing to?
(well, I quoted "...Metrotard apps..." but it disappeared, and I do NOT suspect moderator censorship)
Metrotard App? What's that?
Oh, right, Settings. The only one still standing on my test system, and lo and behold it's decently light and fast!
But what's the point? Once all the new and "improved" stuff is out of the way, it's just a worse Win 8.1 / 7 system than 8.1 / 7. Win 10 is not actually LIGHTER, or FASTER (Drew1903, suck on that), and it struggles mightily to provide Basic telemetry to Microsoft.
-Noel
Not only that but have you tried resizing a window? The drawing is so horrible it has a 1.5 second lag and flickers like a 1985 Video Game. It occurs with metro crapps as well as win32. I didnt notice in a few builds back so im thinking they are dicking around with the window manager. Maybe eliminating double buffer drawing? I have a program ive been working on and i ALWAYS double buffer (using an SDK i wrote for drawing that has it built in) and it still flickers so badly ive had to use WM_PAINT and WM_ERASEBKGD hacks and then it only reduces it slightly.
One thing that kills me is people claim its faster and maybe some things are but
A. Only by a fraction and anyone with a $130 SSD wont notice a difference anyway.
and
B. The parts that you would regularly use like opening and closing programs are way slower requiring splash screens. This makes the overall usage in say a days time TAKE LONGER because you only need to boot up once you will probably open/close many programs many times in a day. Why cant those idiots see that?
Not only that but have you tried resizing a window? The drawing is so horrible it has a 1.5 second lag and flickers like a 1985 Video Game. It occurs with metro crapps as well as win32. I didnt notice in a few builds back so im thinking they are dicking around with the window manager. Maybe eliminating double buffer drawing? I have a program ive been working on and i ALWAYS double buffer (using an SDK i wrote for drawing that has it built in) and it still flickers so badly ive had to use WM_PAINT and WM_ERASEBKGD hacks and then it only reduces it slightly.
Yeah, for each resize event/message, DWM queries those registry values again as shown in the second screenshot of my last post on the previous page. That's got to be slowing it down. Who knows what else they're doing in that code. Welcome to Windoze 10. I can only imagine how fast Windows could boot if Microsoft would clean up their code some. It's already very competitive with MacOS. I'd love to see Microsoft outdo themselves and blow the competition clear out of the water. As a programmer, I see lots of inefficiency in Windows.
Last Edit: Oct 16, 2015 14:59:29 GMT -6 by Techie007
Microsoft, is Windows 10 the best you could do? Really? After promising to listen to our feedback, what a letdown!
TBH querying the registery is extremely fast. Orders of magnitude range. Unless you query somewhere in the 10k+ range per second it shouldnt show much of a difference. Unless they repeatedly close/reopen key handles even then it would only be a bit slower. What im seeing in 565 and the build before it is extremly slow. Im thinking they dont double buffer the draws anymore. It could also be that they are starting on the VM packaging talked about from before where even win32's will be sandboxed (not as much as metro crapps). I have also noticed my program (A c/c++ compiler IDE) takes several seconds to open and close. Im thinking that maybe its due to setting up/freeing the sandbox.
I have what was God's Own Workstation a couple of years ago, so I can't say I sense slowness in the window management, even in a VM. But I believe you. I can't see how the children programming Windows now could have made it better.
It's possible that the tweaks I've done with 3rd party stuff to resurrect a nice look and feel may actually be helping it render more efficiently.
-Noel
Author of the "How to Configure the 'To Work' Options" series of Windows books. Not feeling enough love to do one for Windows 10.
I'm not a programmer nor a developer like most of those who are here. At that, I'm finding Windows 10 just needs way to many hacks and work arounds just to get it to be reasonblely acceptable to use.
That's the point. It's why so many people HATE WINDOWS 10. It supposed to work for you, not drive you out of your ever loving mind looking for ways to survive with it.
I can only imagine how fast Windows could boot if Microsoft would clean up their code some. It's already very competitive with MacOS. I'd love to see Microsoft outdo themselves and blow the competition clear out of the water. As a programmer, I see lots of inefficiency in Windows.
I can only guess that they really don't have the talent to do that, and their managers are smart enough to tell them to keep your grubby little 5 year old hands off the important parts - until we have 50% or more adoption.
It's possible that the tweaks I've done with 3rd party stuff to resurrect a nice look and feel may actually be helping it render more efficiently.
That would be the ultimate irony: A system that looks prettier due to 3rd-party tweaks hooking Windows functions in the background that ends up being more efficient too. Weren't we told that one of the reasons Aero Glass was deprecated was to make things faster and increase battery life? This might be worth measuring sometime!
Microsoft, is Windows 10 the best you could do? Really? After promising to listen to our feedback, what a letdown!
<Rick> Good video. It's almost hard to believe that at one time Windows 98 was the resource hog, but even then, it still ran circles around what Windows 10 can do on today's modern hardware and look a heck of alot better doing it.
May 25, 2021 22:55:12 GMT -6
<Rick> As stated elsewhere, So much for the launch of Windows 11, "The Great Crash." Myself, I had a hard time getting into the site listed above, when I did get in, the video was partly done and then it crashed. There has been many other reports of crashing.
Jun 24, 2021 9:52:33 GMT -6
*
<Rick> I see Microsoft has been very quick to pull down reports of site crashing regarding the Launch of Windows 11 on the Microsoft Insiders forum.
Jun 24, 2021 9:57:31 GMT -6
*
<Rick> The rebroadcast is working okay.
Jun 24, 2021 11:00:25 GMT -6
<Rick> With reports of people being able to install the dev-edition of Windows 11 on machines not meeting spec, I thought I would give it a what-the-heck try. Lucky me, I'm caught in the downloading, doesn't meet spec, clearing, re-downloading loop on my machine!
Jul 2, 2021 7:08:46 GMT -6
<Rick> I've recently purchased a license for ArcaOS from www.arcanoae.com/ to play with. First impressions, it's still OS/2, but it now has a Linux twist to it.
Jul 2, 2021 7:32:53 GMT -6
*
<dozrguy> laptop shit out and am stuck buying a new one. os win11 as fucked as win10 was?
Oct 2, 2021 12:56:10 GMT -6
<Rick> Let's see ..., my impression of Windows 11 is that it is a spruced up version of Windows 10 requiring a 64-bit processor plus a piece of security hardware that is less than 4 years old in order for it to run.
Oct 4, 2021 18:25:49 GMT -6
*
<Rick> On the plus side, Microsoft is supposed to be supporting Windows 10 for some time to come for those of us still using systems with I7 or older processors.
Oct 4, 2021 18:44:35 GMT -6
*
<dozrguy> i tried installing win10 om the 'shitout' pc this morning usung media creation. EPIC FAIL! went into an endless bootloop. win7 reinstalled just fine
Oct 21, 2021 11:23:38 GMT -6
<dozrguy> STILL so much bullshit and so little time for the kiddie ideas from the hill. My new laptop (MSI GE 11-UH461) would be an awesome "10" machine but because of Winblows I can only give it a "2"......wasted $3500
Oct 27, 2021 9:36:47 GMT -6
<Rick> Hello. Just checking in.
Mar 17, 2022 10:46:54 GMT -6
<isidroco> Each new w10 update adds >100000 useless files to \Windows\Servicing\LCU\Package_for_RollupFix... folders. Even in a SSD takes time to delete that stuff. In each version they manage to worsen stuff.
Mar 27, 2022 16:14:51 GMT -6
*
<dozerguy> still traffic here?
Oct 9, 2022 17:32:44 GMT -6
<Rick> No, there does not seem to be very much traffic these days. I still check in from time to time.
Oct 9, 2022 20:08:58 GMT -6